Member Reviews

Thank you NetGalley and Macmillian Children's publishing group for providing me a copy of this ARC in exchange for an honest review.

This book was spooky but in a good way. I read at night which isn't the best thing for someone who is easily scared. The writing in this book was beautiful and the story engaging. The characters were relatable and I really enjoyed reading this book! Would recommend to a friend.

Was this review helpful?

mixed feelings, mostly good about this gothic and dark fantasy novel. overall I veyr much enjoyed the plot and characters, but had some issues with the worldbuilidng. longer review to come.

Was this review helpful?

The premise of this book is wonderful. It's sort of... Beauty and the Beast meets Hades and Persephone? That's the best way I can think to describe it. And when the book first began, I was really enjoying it. The beginning gives us this dark, gothic manor setting, this mysterious, monstrous boy, and a pair of siblings with a dark past. It drew me in immediately.

But as the book went on, I lost a little bit of the interest that the earlier parts of the book sparked in me. The writing got more clumsy, more clunky feeling. The book is told in first person POV, but it's like our main character has forgotten her own past. There's a big reveal about halfway through the book - something that is about her - but the way it was written made it feel like she had no idea up until that point.

Another good example that's still fresh in my head was a scene about 75% of the way through the book. Our main character Leta and the mysterious Lord of the manor, Rowan, exchange a couple of heated lines - barely even an argument - but then the very next line is Leta walking off to go eat some fruit. No transition, no explanation, no inner monologue to explain what she's doing. Rowan says something about how she's hurting him, then she just... walks off and eats a pomegranate. Okay? It was jarring, to say the least.

The premise of this book was intriguing enough that I wanted to keep reading; this 'corruption' that's taking over the land, I wanted to know what it was and how our little ragtag found family group of characters could stop it. I just wish it had been explored more, I suppose. The plot is very cyclical here: group attempts ritual, something goes wrong and it fails, someone is hurt, they wait and try it again, rinse and repeat. It wasn't even a surprise to me when the book ended on a cliffhanger, because all I could think was, "Well, it's not going to be that easy..."

I'm not trying to say that it needed a nice easy, clean ending wrapped up in a neat little bow. I just think that this book could use with some more focus and polishing. I'm intrigued enough with the plot that I'll most likely still pick up the sequel, it just didn't quite end up being quite the 5 star book I was expecting this to be as I went into it. Maybe my expectations were just a bit too high?

Was this review helpful?

I loved this atmospheric read! It is so gothic and lush and everything I want in a book going into Spooky Season. Highly recommend this book for fans of romance with a dark fairy tale vibe to them. It will be the perfect addition to anyone's Spooky TBR. Thank you to Netgalley and Macmillan Children's Publishing Group for giving me an eARC in exchange for an honest review. Opinions are my own.

Was this review helpful?

Ahhhhhhh that cliff hanger!!! And the next one isn't out until LATE 2022!!

Oh man, I requested this book solely based on the cover. Not something I usually do, but this one was just too beautiful to pass up. I am so glad I did and that I was chosen to read an advanced e-copy. This is such an amazingly written and well thought out fantasy. I was getting slight ACOTAR and Shadow and Bone vibes while reading (definitely saw Kaz as the Rowan, not going to lie). I was also getting Beauty and the Beast retelling vibes in the beginning too.

We have a bad ass group of female characters. Obviously our main character, Violeta, after making some choice decisions with the Lord Under, comes to find her power. But what is going to happen to her!? Man, this is why I have a love/hate relationship with reading newly published books that are going to be a series.

I really loved that there was representation in this as well.

Overall I am really excited for more people to read this. I am also excited to see where the next book is going and it will definitely be on my most anticipated releases list for next year!

Was this review helpful?

Initial Thoughts
While making a Hades and Persephone cheat sheet, I discovered that this book is, in fact, an H&P retelling. And that totally piqued my interest. I was also eager to read something for spooky season.

Some Things I Liked
Historical fantasy vibes. One of my favorite things about this book is that it is set in a fictional world but it feels historical. If you like A Treason of Thorns by Laura E. Weymouth, you'll love this book.
The romance. The romance in this book was really well done. Our main characters are definitely both carrying a ton of emotional baggage but I loved the way they found comfort in each other.
Representation. I really loved this element. This book covers numerous representations and I really liked how they were all handled. I can't wait to see how the different threads play out as far as items set up in this book. I can't say much more because of spoilers.

One Thing I Wasn't Crazy About
Leta annoyed me at times. She was hasty and rash and often messed things up for everyone else and then was like "well, you should have told me I was about to mess everything up." Please note, I know this is a YA book so the main character is bound to make mistakes but, I think what annoyed me about Leta at times was her reaction to said mistakes. She read as immature in some scenes and mature in others.

Series Value
There must be a sequel to this book. There just must be. I need it. The ending left me wanting so much more. I can't wait to find out what happens.

Final Thoughts
I really liked this book. I loved the H&P vibes, the romance, and the spooky elements. I am definitely interested in continuing this series.

⭐⭐⭐⭐

Was this review helpful?

I really wanted to like this! The premise sounds amazing (and the cover is beautiful!), but the execution was lacking. This book felt like it was trying to do too much and ended up spreading itself too thin—the magic system, the worldbuilding, the romance, the characterization, all fell flat when they should have been bursting. The prose is lovely and this book is atmospheric; Clipstone can definitely write. But it wasn't enough to balance the huge questions I had due to lack of development.

Was this review helpful?

Thank you so much to Fierce Reads/Macmillan Children's and Netgalley for letting me read an eARC or Lakesedge! I hadn't actually read anything really about this book before I read it, but I was obsessed with the cover, so I was the most excited to read it, and I think y'all will be too! Lakesedge comes out on September 28th, so make sure y'all go out and grab it!
Lakesedge 4/5 Stars
Summary from Goodreads:
A lush gothic fantasy about monsters and magic, set on the banks of a cursed lake. Perfect for fans of Naomi Novik and Brigid Kemmerer.
There are monsters in the world.
When Violeta Graceling arrives at haunted Lakesedge estate, she expects to find a monster. She knows the terrifying rumors about Rowan Sylvanan, who drowned his entire family when he was a boy. But neither the estate nor the monster are what they seem.
There are monsters in the woods.
As Leta falls for Rowan, she discovers he is bound to the Lord Under, the sinister death god lurking in the black waters of the lake. A creature to whom Leta is inexplicably drawn…
There’s a monster in the shadows, and now it knows my name.
Now, to save Rowan—and herself—Leta must confront the darkness in her past, including unraveling the mystery of her connection to the Lord Under.
This book was so cool and so well written. I was super interested in every part of it and all I wanted to do after starting the book was keep reading! I liked Violeta as a main character, but man, I liked Rowan as a side character/love interest so much more. The whole story behind his curse and him being a monster and his family dying and him living alone(ish) in his estate was so sad but such like a person defining story- I loved it. The Lord Under was such a cool character too and a great take on like a Hades/lord of the underworld kind of character. The idea of magic through alchemists was cool and I really liked Clover. Haha I feel like I'm just listing out all of the characters and saying that I like them, but it's true! I did really liked all of them! Plot wise, I liked it- the second half was my favorite and I loved the last quarter where the Lord Under really plays a bigger piece, but the first half was really good too. I love where this book is going and I cannot wait to read book 2. This book has shades of Beauty and the Beast and shades of the Hades/Persephone myth and they come together beautifully. I really think y'all are going to like this one!


Link to blog to come

Was this review helpful?

Gothic, fantasy, romance, spooky mansion, magic, underworld, captivating characters, fast-moving plot… need I say more? This YA debut novel contained most elements that I desire in a story. The characters have depth, are interesting, and inspiring with their tenacity. The protagonist Violeta Graceling (phenomenal name) is a strong character whose compassion and strength overcomes fantastical obstacles while keeping her younger brother safe and while learning the truth behind the “monster” Rowan Sylvanan. Rowan has shut himself off from most of the world due to the mystery surrounding his past, and slowly opens up throughout the novel as a character I couldn’t help but empathize with. And the Lord Under? I love how creepy, somehow likable (I hope I am not alone in this:), and completely himself he is as a Death God.

Curses are an element I always look for in a story and in Lakesedge it is the center of the plot because of the haunted lake. This brings a darkness and atmosphere that creates a thrill and some spooky elements. Everything moves quickly through the book, captivating my attention and curiosity to know what would happen next in the unique world of the novel containing its own religion, customs, and underworld setting.

My rating for this is a 4.5 because while there is so much I loved in this book there were a few repetitive elements in the plot (especially self-sacrifice) that I wanted to move past. Also, I still need time to process my feelings about the ending. Ugh, too much cliffhanger. I am not a patient waiter for sequels to be released; but, I will most definitely be reading it as soon as I can!

Thank you NetGalley, MacMillian Children’s Publishing, and Henry Holt for a copy in return for an honest review.

Was this review helpful?

3.5*

Lakesedge follows Violeta Graceling, who expects to find monsters upon her arrival at the haunted Lakesedge Estate. She knows about Rowan Sylvanan, who drowned his family as a young boy. As Leta falls for Rowan, she learns he is bound to the Lord Under, a death god that resides in the black waters of the lake. After being drawn to the Lord Under, and learning of her connection to him, Leta must confront the darkness of her past to save Rowan – and herself.

I always love reading gothic novels, so when I saw this debut ya novel releasing, I knew I had to read it. Like many gothic novels, Lakesedge has the perfect setup. It’s creepy, cool, and unsettling, and one that will hook lovers of gothic novels like myself.

The story behind this book is very intriguing as well. The character backstories in this book leave for a lot of mystery and intrigue, allowing the story to develop and twist and turn as it progresses. Plus, these revelations were made in such a way that they added so much to the unease that books like Lakesedge deliver on.

Despite the differences in pacing structure being a core characteristic of gothic novels, I don’t always enjoy how the stories are paced. However, I can say that I really liked how the pacing was handled in Lakesedge. In addition to the buildup of the setting, there’s also so much anticipation for what will be uncovered at the lakes-edge estate that the first half of this took is paced just right.

Despite the character backstories contributing so much to the intrigue of this book, I do wish that there was more character development in some areas. At some points in this book, I feel like there was more room to feel for the characters had they been developed more. I think that a little more room to develop the character’s emotions as well really would have added to the feelings that this story evokes

Overall, Lakesedge was a well-written debut with a gorgeously haunting setting and I look forward to the next installment. I recommend this book to readers that enjoy gothic novels or are looking for a book with the perfect atmosphere for the fall season.

Was this review helpful?

In this beautiful mannor by the edge of a black lake, secrets wait. No one is more keen to reveal all those secrets than Leta…. but at the same time, she is equally as keen to hide the secrets that her own brother, Arien, has at his fingertips. She has protected him since he was a babe in arms, beyond an extent that even he understands, and one that we are only slowly allowed to see pieces of as the book continues.

Leta is prickly and protective of Airen, so when the local Lord appears at the tithe and decideds Airen is coming with him, Leta forces his hand into taking her with him too. She quickly regrets her decision but digs her heels in, hoping to make Airen’s life just a bit easier by being close to him – and in turn, maybe make Rowan’s just a bit more difficult.

However, Rowan and Leta have more in common than it first seems, and the grow close, trusting each other with parts of themselves that they’ve been scared to bring to the surface; the secrets they hide, and that one secret they both have that no one else will undertsand… Their coversations with the Lord Under, and the sacrifices they made to him.

The character development we see in Rowan and Leta both individually and in their support of one another is heart warming, as is the love between Leta and Arien. They have the kind of sibling dynamic that makes you look at your own sibling and wonder when you last called him. Or called him names, at least. Arien is another character who grows and grows, utterly thriving in the enviroment that the estate provides for him, and he really comes into himself, and out of himself, all at once.

It’s a beautiful, creepy, wonderful book that I won’t forget for a long time. All the characters – aside from Mother – grew on me, even the Lord Under, and it made me just want to see more of all of them. I wanted the book to just continue but wanted to finish it at the same time, because I needed to see how it all concluded.

Written with eerie skill and a brilliant magic system that fits right in to my list of unique magic systems, I can’t wait to see where this story goes next, and what the author will turn her attention to at the end of this planned duology.

Was this review helpful?

4.5 STARS

Always from one monster to the next.

When Leta and her brother Arien go to Lakesedge, they're trading away life with one monster for life with another. The new monster, Rowan Sylvanan, is the master of the estate, and he drowned his entire family, one by one. Yet he wants Arien's help, Arien's magic to combat a darkness that grips the lake behind the manor. Why then, would a monster want to stop his own darkness?

There's more to Lakesedge than Leta first sees, and more to Rowan as well. The longer she stays at the estate, the more she comes to realize deeper, darker truths abound. Secrets long buried are coming back to light, and through it all, there is a constant current leading back to the Lord Under, the god of death.

If Leta is going to survive Lakesedge, she must confront not only her own past, but Rowan's as well, and learn to navigate her strange connection to the Lord Under.


Lakesedge is moody gothic more than creepy gothic, which I prefer.

I'm not a huge fan of horror (with some exceptions), so I was really pleased to find that Lakesedge relies more on a gloomy, atmospheric touch than the creepier gothic elements. Sure, there's some content that I would classify as body horror, or perhaps body horror adjacent. There's some scenes that are downright spooky and unsettling.

But there are also scenes that hold a wistful sort of wonder, and moments that feel like a candle in the dark, warm and small but still there all the same. I love these so much, because they echo the estate in the beginning: beautiful but lonely, like there was life here and it's faded since.

It's this atmosphere that lends Lakesedge so much of its power as a book, what makes it so captivating. You want to peek into all these secret corners, see if anything catches your eye, see if there's some terrible thing lurking that you still can't look away from. It's a gothic curiosity, really, one only distantly touched by fear, one touched more by love and sacrifice instead.


"Better a soft heart than no heart at all."

My favorite part about this book, though, is not the atmosphere. It's the characters.

Leta, of course, had my heart immediately. An older sibling trying to protect a younger sibling from harm? That tends to grab my heart and squeeze. I'm the oldest of three, after all, and that protectiveness is something I'm familiar with. But Leta is also fearless in so many instances, and brave in the rest. She doesn't shy away from circumstances that might terrify anyone else, especially if it's to protect Arien from harm. More importantly, thought, she presses on even when she is afraid. Sure, she might wait to consider her options, try to approach a situation in a way that inspires less fear, but she still moves forward in the end. She's wonderfully reliable, sometimes in a way that makes my heart ache.

Rowan, on the other hand, was not an instant favorite. Broody loner is far from my favorite character archetype, and at first, he fits it to a T. Classic gothic romance, right? Except as we learn more about him, we see that he's a boy forced to grow up too soon, a boy shaped by horrific trauma and strain. To my absolute shock, he cries more than once in this book. And not pretty little single tears. Real sobs, true distress and loss. I'm not used to seeing male characters written this away, allowed to feel so much so keenly, and it endeared me to Rowan because it opened him up, showed me a character worth rooting for. There are other factors, of course, but they're difficult to explain without straying into spoiler territory, which I try to avoid.

Suffice to say, the characters, both main and supporting, made Lakesedge all the more enjoyable and worth my time. And, lovely bonus, there is quite a few mentions of casual queerness that I delighted in. Always a plus to see!


You don't have to wait much longer to see what the Lord Under wants from Leta and Rowan.

Lakesedge will hit shelves tomorrow, September 28th! And trust me when I say you'll want the sequel as soon as you finish. Forestfall may be a ways off, in 2022, but I need it after that final scene.

And what better way to end the first book in a gothic fantasy romance series than to fill the reader with unattainable, aching longing? It seems more than appropriate for the genre, and I'm so eager to see what comes next for Leta, not to mention Lyndall Clipstone's writing career.


CW: child abuse, loss of a loved one, self-harm, child death, suicide, sex scene, body horror

[This review will go live on Hail & Well Read at 10am EST on 9/27/21.]

Was this review helpful?

This story follows Violeta, whose brother, Arien, has trouble controlling a cursed shadow magic that he has had to keep hidden most of his life. When the local Lord, Rowan, discovers Arien's gifts, he takes Arien and Violeta to his estate at Lakesedge. Violeta has always heard that Rowan is a monster who drowned his family in the lake, cursing him and the grounds, but as she grows closer to Rowan and uncovers the truth, Violeta finds it increasingly difficult to see him as the monster everyone thinks he is.

Loved this book!! It has such great spooky vibes for the Fall/Halloween season. I loved the budding romance between Violeta and Rowan, but I am not going to lie - the Lord Under stole my heart. I don't want to say much because of spoilers but, lets just say if you were looking for a character that is a cross of Hades and the Goblin King from Labyrinth THIS BOOK HAS IT! The twists were great, and the whole thing was so wonderfully morally grey with the characters. After that ending, I cannot wait for the sequel - I have some theories. ;)

Was this review helpful?

A great primer for gothic fiction for young readers. It has many of the tropes I love about the genre, including a slow burn and a toxic attraction, but I did want to go a bit deeper with the characters. Fortunately, we're getting a sequel! The author writes really lovely descriptions of the setting, and I enjoyed the pacing. I'm looking forward to seeing where she takes us next time.

Was this review helpful?

Violeta's brother's episodes have gotten worse. The fits of shadows spilling out of him that started out as products of nightmares have started to happen during the day. When a mysterious local lord rumored to have murdered his entire family takes an interest in her brother's condition and insists he come with him, Violeta joins them, refusing to leave her brother behind.

TW: [ self-harm, mention of suicide, loss of loved ones.]

I was really looking forward to reading another gothic-inspired fantasy this year after loving The Death of Jane Lawrence as an eARC. However, this did not come close to my expectations. First, what I liked. I thought that the magic system, while underdeveloped, was an interesting setup - we have a goddess of light and a god of shadow, and people conjure magic (either light or shadow) through alchemical symbols they write on their skin. If you're a big fan of Supernatural or The Bear and the Nightingale you may be particularly interested in the main villain, who is summoned like a demon. There was also very casual queer representation - the MC is demisexual, the love interest is bi/pan, her brother is gay, and another character is either lesbian or bi. I absolutely blew through reading this; it was very easily digestible. While the setting is certainly inspired by Gothic literature, unfortunately, that's where the resemblance to it stops.
On the other hand, there were a lot of things that I wasn't a fan of. We have a classic young adult female protagonist who is headstrong and always throwing herself into danger, never allowing anybody else to do the same, all the while falling in love with a guy she originally thought was a monster. She also is so stubborn that she believes that her brother, who is manifesting shadows and his eyes turn black and the whole nine yards, is simply having bad dreams for like a third of the book. Very, very basic in that regard. If you can't stand that archetype, I encourage you to skip this book. The way I would describe the rest of this book is how I described the magic system - underdeveloped. I felt no pull toward the love interest and all of the side characters were underbaked. The plot felt choppy. Because of these things, the stakes felt nonexistent. I also feel that I should comment that the romance goes a little bit past what I would normally consider normal for YA in one scene. Definitely feel like that should have faded to black considering how young the rest of this book felt.
Overall, this book was underwhelming for me as a fan of gothic literature, but I believe that for younger readers this may be a good introduction to the aesthetic if not the themes.

Was this review helpful?

Thank you so much to NetGalley and the author for this ARC in exchange for an honest review! This gothic fantasy gave me spooky vibes that are perfect for fall and some handsome and dark figures I didn’t know that I needed.

I discovered this read through scrolling through NetGalley’s amazing collection of books and I am so happy I found it because it introduced to a world full of dark characters, an unique and captivating magical system, a romance made of my favorite trope (enemies to lovers if I haven’t harped about it enough), and a story unlike no other.

Not only was the story amazing, I was also OBSESSED WITH THE WRITING. This story was written so beautifully, it made my English major heart sing!! UGH THE METAPHORS AND THE SIMILES WERE SO HAUNTINGLY BEAUTIFUL. It was just so good. Usually description can cause my mind to wander and crave for the author to just get on with it, but not this time. I was so in love with the way the author caught my attention and reeled me into this magical and haunting world. It was so good. I kept stopping while reading and would read lines over and over again. I was struck dumb on how magical the writing was!

The plot had a LOT of storylines that we had to get through, but the story made it through the woods and under the bridge and into grandmother’s house. The magical system had very witchy wiccan vibes that made my old school fangirl squeal and I was completely fascinated. I loved both elements of dark and light and the author and her descriptions really sailed this beast home to the promised land. The struggle between good and evil was very evident in the plot, but it was anything but ordinary and the elements of mystery of the characters and their pasts kept the reader guessing on who was bad and who was good.

The characters were all so intriguing and I loved them all, but there was so much mystery to their backgrounds that I wish that the author had focused on one and saved the rest for later in the series. It was just so much at once that everything kind of got muddled together. Maybe if the book had been a little longer or there were less characters, this could have been avoided. Their stories all were so HEARTBREAKING and they all needed individual attention. Also the romance came out of NOWHERE and this was another symptom of too many things going on. Also.... the romantic coupling was not really the one I wanted.... Please Lord of Death.... Take me on a yummy journey please..... (I’m obsessed with the tale of Hades and Peresphone and I have emotional problems....)

So the ending was kind of a smack in my face because it was a cliffhanger... and I didn’t know it was a series... so at first I was like... “THAT’S IT?!?!” but then I found out that it was a series so now I’m just ready for the installment already.

Was this review helpful?

I was beyond excited when I received an email from NetGalley saying that my wish for Lakesedge by Lyndall Clipstone was granted! I heard that this book was going to be in one of the monthly book boxes I’m subscribed to, so I was elated to have the chance to read it early! This gothic fantasy has everything you could want, including spooky vibes perfect for this Autumn season!

When the lord of her village demands that Leta’s brother come live with him at the mysterious estate of Lakesedge, Leta is not about to let her brother go alone. She’s not sure what is more dangerous, the spine-tingling visions she’s had since arriving at the manor, or the lord himself, nicknamed the Monster. Not to mention her chilling encounters with the Lord Under, who Leta has not seen since she was lost in the woods as a child. However, as she starts to uncover more of Lakesedge’s secrets, Leta begins to believe that their is more to the Monster than meets the eye. But how can Leta balance her complicated ties to the underworld with keeping her loved ones safe?

Normally when I read I take notes because I want to remember what I plan on including in the review, but Lakesedge is one of those rare books that completely drew me in, and I couldn’t stop reading to take notes. The story is truly all-encompassing, and you really feel like you’re at Lakesedge with Leta. The overall tone of this book is so darkly enticing that you feel as though you want to live in this world.

In my opinion, the details and descriptions throughout the novel made it stand out. While there wasn’t necessarily a lot of world building, the descriptions gave me such a vivid picture of Lakesedge. Lakesedge is like a world in and of itself.

Furthermore, there were not many characters, but the few main characters in the novel were well-developed and relatable. I adored the fact that Leta was conflicted about loving a monster. Most novels focus on the protagonist loving the person behind the monster, but Leta loved the person and the monster, which was a unique twist.

I honestly don’t have enough words to accurately convey how wonderful and creepy this book was! I will certainly be displaying this book on my shelf when I get it in my book box, and recommending it whenever people are looking for spooky reads that draw you into the story. Lakesedge will be published next Tuesday, September 28th, and this is certainly a book you don’t want to miss!

Was this review helpful?

Lakesedge was a broody and gothically atmospheric read that intrigued me from the start! Lakesedge oozes darkness and I absolutely loved the eerie storyline, the creepy manor, the cursed lake and the darkness that surrounds the main characters. I love when the author makes every aspect of their book as dark as the storyline is, from the characters to the backstory to the setting itself. All the little details really added to the creepiness of this book! The Lord Under was another intriguing character that I found radiated with mystery and death. I really enjoyed Violetta and Rowan's character and how they dance around each other the entire book. Overall I got really creepy yet traditional horror story folklore vibes and I cannot wait to see what happens next!

Was this review helpful?

Loved the gothic-esque setting of this book - the imagery was fantastic. Lakesedge has a great premise, but everything and everyone in it felt a bit flat. That ending might have me back for the sequel, though!

Was this review helpful?

Well this was a magical read and idk how I feel! It was deep and moving and poetic. And that ending has me in tears!

Violeta and her brother Arien live in a small village, think Puritan like, that celebrates the Goddess of light above. Arien starts to show signs of darkness, the likes of the Lord Under, and that’s a no no. They catch the attention of Lord Rowan Sylvanan, who is also spoke to be corrupted.. aka he drowned his entire family. Well they set out on a mission, with Rowan, to use their magic to stop the Blith or the corruption that is spreading in their world. Violeta, or Leta as she’s called by her brother, relaizes she has magic within her and she might be just powerful enough to do so.

I love the idea and how the world and magic worked, but some of it fell flat for me. I felt like you had this big build with some filler but than a speed up of pacing. The ending was also an open ending, where you’re like “umm is book 2 happening” because if not I need to know more. The slow build romance was what also saved the story for me. Ugh Rowan was perfect and complex. So misunderstood that it turned him a recluse and jerky but slowly Leta broke that shell.

All in all, I enjoyed the story!

Was this review helpful?